
The Path To God
Eckankar is the Religion of the Light and Sound of God. The Light and Sound are the two aspects that speak to the human race, that speak to each Soul. The Light and Sound together are the Voice of God, what the Old and New Testaments call the Holy Spirit or Logos. Together they are simply divine love.
Roles Of The Master
You are the present living ECK Master of Eckankar, and you also embody the Mahanta Consciousness. Could you explain these two roles?
People talk about the Mahanta Consciousness as being something that you slip off and on like a shirt. But, in fact, the person who takes the role of spiritual leader and has a certain level of spiritual growth then becomes both the Mahanta and the Living ECK Master; which means the Mahanta is the inner side of the teacher and the Living ECK Master is the outer side of the teacher.
This gives a balance of both the inner and outer teachings so that the individual can have a clear, unobstructed path back home to God.
How Is The Next Master Chosen?
How is the Living Eck Master chosen, and has the next one been chosen yet?
The Living ECK Master is always chosen by God. (In ECK we call God SUGMAD.) And there is a circle of candidates who are in training for the position of spiritual mastership.
Sometimes they move forward spiritually, then they move backward, then they move forward again. This process can go on for years until the final moment when the successor to me is chosen, and at that point, God chooses the person and I will tell others who this person is. I will tell them in one way or another, either personally or by written record.
Blending Of Inner And Outer
Is the Mahanta Consciousness always with you?
It's like this: I am the Mahanta. That means I am the Inner Master and I am the Outer Master. Let's state this question another way: to say, Is the Mahanta Consciousness always with me? is like saying Is the outer consciousness always with me? Yes, it becomes a part of you, that you are not just the Mahanta Consciousness.
In this case, I'm saying about myself, "I'm not just the consciousness" as if it's something apart from me. I am the Mahanta because of the blending of the inner and the outer worlds in physical form
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What Makes Eckankar Unique?
There are so many choices available to the seeker of truth today, including various teachings of the Light and Sound. What makes Eckankar different?
There aren't that many teachings about the Light and Sound. There are a lot of teachings that know nothing about either the Light or the Sound as an important part of the spiritual path
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Christianity speaks about the Light in a number of places in the scriptures. For instance, Saint Paul on the road to Damascus—that was the Light of God. But I don't think Christianity understands the full importance of the Light of God. And even those few religions that do have both the Light and Sound of God may not fully understand the importance of having them both as a part of a viable spiritual path
.
So, in ECK we teach that there is this balance of the two aspects so that people can have the straightest, most direct, and most spiritually beneficial path to God.
Value Of HU
HU is the main mantra used in Eckankar. It has also been used in other spiritual traditions in the past. What makes this one-syllable word so powerful?
It's powerful because it's the ancient name for God. It's a name that some of the Eastern religions are aware of, but in the West it's pretty much an unknown name. And it is much more effective as a love song to God than just the simple Anglo-Saxon word God.
HU is ancient. When they come back to ECK, it's the name people recognize from other lifetimes. When they come back to ECK, they're going to remember. They're going to find help in their lives when using it, when singing it, because it makes a connection all the way back through the earliest times when people came to this planet. People who reincarnated a long time ago have this unconscious knowledge of it. And the ones who have been here before many times love the sound.
Spiritual Training
Where and how does the student of ECK receive his or her spiritual training?
The spiritual training for the ECK initiate begins before the person ever becomes a member of Eckankar.
For instance, some people grow up as a member of a Christian group, like the Episcopal Church. Then a few years later they may become Lutherans, perhaps. Then they'll go along a little farther and find themselves members of the Unity Church. And then as they progress in this life, after many hardships and experiences, they finally realize that they are looking for something else
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The religions of the past have not helped them fulfill the yearning for love, divine love, that's in their heart. And they come into ECK. They have then taken the first big step in their journey back home to God
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The journey home to God is what life is about. In a sense, it's not even a journey, it's an ongoing experience. But it does have to do with direction, because until a person finds the teachings of ECK, he is carried on a great wave from God that goes all the way out into the universes.
As soon as you hear about ECK and accept its principles and teachings of divine love, you catch the return wave home. This is why it's such an important teaching for people who may come to the critical juncture in their life where they are serious about doing something more with their own life than they have been able to do so far through other paths.
Our Home
The Temple of ECK has been built in Chanhassen, Minnesota. Why? And what difference has it made to the whole movement of Eckankar?
I think any organization—religious, political, or social—needs a home. You need a home because you need a base to work from. But the Temple of ECK also provides a direct line of spiritual energy from the higher worlds that comes into the Physical Plane.
The Temple itself gives people the chance to find truth at their own level. The many ECK centers that are established around the world right now and the ECK Temples that will come in different parts of the world are almost like different rooms in the same Temple. It's all under the teaching of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master—the same teacher.
It's important to have spiritual learning centers all around the world for people who don't yet have the inner connection, yet want to get divine truth. They will have the opportunity to go to one of these ECK centers or ECK temples that will also be around the world to sing HU with others and also study the spiritual discourse lessons I provide for the members of ECK.
Are The ECK Masters Real?
Much is written in Eckankar about the ECK Masters, the Order of the Vairagi Adepts. Are these archetypal images or real beings?
These are real beings. There are people who have come into Eckankar who have had experiences with people like Rebazar Tarzs years before they knew about the ECK Masters or became members of Eckankar. Or they've had experiences with Yaubl Sacabi and Fubbi Quantz. These ECK Masters served at the height of civilization throughout our current history and even earlier
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The ECK Masters have great compassion. They give love and mercy to the people they meet. All they want to do is pass along the gifts of God, but people have to earn them.
Is the Vairagi Order, of which you are the present leader, connected to any other brotherhood? If not, do you still work with other masters and teachers?
It's an independent spiritual order. But we work with the masters of the other orders because among the true leaders of any spiritual teaching—where people are truly interested in the spiritual welfare of the human race—-there aren't any walls.
Each of these groups of spiritual adepts knows that it has a particular function to carry out. Each group has its own mission to God. There is no conflict. They allow people to go to whichever group they need for their own spiritual unfoldment.
Highest Regions
Eckankar states that it can lead one to the highest regions on the inner planes. Can this also be achieved on other paths?
Each path has a particular purpose as far as bringing a person to a certain level. And it isn't always the highest teaching within that path that comes forward to the people. The lower order of teachings within each group might say, "This is the highest path."
You have to remember that these worlds that God set up are negative in nature so that Soul may develop Its spiritual qualities. The pattern for spiritual growth is set up so that people learn more by the lessons they gain through hardship. Not through things they learn when life is easy.
I'm afraid that we're all like that here. We enjoy life when it's easy, but that's not necessarily when we learn our greatest spiritual lessons. We learn our best lessons when times are hard.
Levels Of Consciousness
Other religions group together cosmic consciousness and God-Realization as the same experience. Eckankar states that there is, in fact, a difference. How can we tell them apart?
Cosmic consciousness is directly connected with the Mental Plane. It comes from the mental region where all our thought, philosophy, logic, and various arts along this line come from. Cosmic consciousness is the high part of the mental region, it gives primarily the Light of God but not Sound.
Someone who had the experience of cosmic consciousness came to ask me if this was God Consciousness. I didn't answer the person, because I can't. If someone has to ask, it isn't.
If you have God Consciousness, you don't have to tell anyone, outside of my role because it's my duty to do so. It's the duty of the spiritual leader of the teachings of ECK to announce himself and make the path of spiritual wisdom freely available to other people. So all those who are ready can find their way to it, so that I can help them put all their attention and efforts towards rising to a higher plane of existence than the physical.
Proving The Path
What would you recommend a person do to prove the authenticity of this path?
I would suggest singing the word HU. If you are going to have any success on this path at all, generally you'll get it by singing HU. The way to sing HU is in a very long, drawn-out breath. Sing the word simply as HU-U-U-U-U.
Sing this song either silently or softly in prayer or meditation sessions for ten or fifteen minutes a day for a month. Try it this way. Then if nothing happens, give yourself a rest for a month or two. Later, if you remember, do it again. If nothing happens then, don't worry about it, because when the seeker is ready the Master appears. It's spiritual law.
When you're ready, you're going to find your next step on the spiritual path
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Future Of Eckankar
What do you see is the future of this teaching?
Someday the teachings of ECK will be a major world religion. But it's not a foregone conclusion. It's going to take a lot of work by a lot of good people to make this happen.
Dream Teachings
How do the dream teachings of Eckankar differ from other dream teachings?
Dream teachings range from the silly to the highly mental. All can help a person to some degree, depending on where that person is. The dream teachings of ECK follow the basic pattern of all the ECK teachings: they are grounded both in the physical teaching as well as the spiritual, the inner, or subtle side. So a person who wants to learn how to dream the ECK way can study some of the ECK discourses as a part of membership.
In other words, you can become a member of ECK and study the ECK dream discourses. Or you may just read one of the ECK books. This is the outer dream, the first step or outer link that occurs to help you make the inner connection to actually having these dreams and understanding how these dreams work.
What Is Soul Travel?
Why is there such a focus on Soul Travel? What is it?
Soul Travel also has its range of experience. Some people notice as just a shift in consciousness. All of a sudden, something happens in their lives where they become aware that they understand something they haven't before. It comes in like a soft, golden kiss of God. Then, they just know something.
Soul Travel can also be a stronger experience where people are actually lifted completely out of the body and they have some experience in the other worlds. It depends on what they're ready for, what's necessary for their spiritual unfoldment.
Why is it so important in Eckankar to learn Soul Travel?
Soul Travel, in its broader sense, is very important because it deals exclusively with the expansion of spiritual awareness. In other words, people have to, at some time, become aware of who and what they are. This knowledge is also opened to them through dreams, or through some other way—their past lives and the possibilities of the future.
But more important: Soul Travel—which means moving into the higher regions of God, to regions people haven't even been to before—opens them to divine love.
This is more important than any of the other journeys into inner space or anything of that nature. Moving into the inner planes through Soul Travel—whether in a very focused or broad, expansive manner—opens the heart to divine love. This is what life is all about.
Overcoming Obstacles
What would you say is the greatest obstacle for someone trying to get to God-Realization?
The greatest obstacle to God is usually the person himself. People,in their experience in life, go through all the ups and downs of everyday living. They get the feeling that they learn something, but so often, in a single lifetime, people don't learn a whole lot. This is why there is such a need to experience going through many, many lives.
By the time they come to the lifetime where they find ECK, they've had just about every experience you can imagine. Unless it happens to be one of their first lifetimes in ECK. Then people generally leave the path in disappointment and disillusionment, only to come back centuries later.
So what is the key for learning to step aside and not get in the way?
Putting your attention on God through singing HU or some other method that God becomes the substance of your life.
When I say this, I do it with some hesitation. When I say, "God becomes the substance of your life," people put together all the wrong messages ever gathered in this life or in previous lives. They put it together all wrong. For instance they say, "All right, to love God a lot means to leave my family. It means to go out in the desert, somewhere, up in the mountains, and cut myself off from humanity. That is showing my love for God." Nothing could be farther from the truth.
That is why I'm really hesitant about saying that God must become the entire focus of a person's life. What I would suggest instead is to sing HU or some other name of God. It will lift you into the higher levels of spiritual realization.
Friday Fast
Can you speak about the Friday fast in Eckankar? For instance, is it OK to have vegetables instead of fruits for the Friday fast?
Yes. In the early days of Eckankar there was more emphasis on a twenty-four hour water fast on Fridays as the primary fast. I discourage that today. Unless it's done under a physician's care, people can hurt themselves. They destroy their muscles. Some actually go very much out of balance.
I usually suggest that on Friday, instead of doing any austerities with food, simply put your attention on God or the Mahanta, the Inner Master. Put your attention there as much as you can throughout the twenty-four hours of a Friday. This will help you spiritually more than any of the other things you've tried, and it's a lot kinder to you.
It'll keep you more in balance so that you can enjoy living. So many people have the misunderstanding that living the spiritual life means to cut yourself off from family and friends or do things that cause all kinds of unnecessary problems. All we do then is create more karma for ourselves. It's such a shame.
I just try to show people how to become responsible human beings who are good to their families and helpful to their neighbors.
In One Lifetime
Can we actually rid ourselves of all past-life karma and not have to reincarnate again? Is it really possible to achieve this in one lifetime?
Yes, if the person keeps their face towards the Light of God and listens to the Sound.
Many people who get on the path of God are basically from the frozen food society. They want to do it for about five to ten minutes a day for five or ten days. Then they lose interest. They wonder, "Why didn't this work for me?" They give their life over to something that is going to change them forever, and if in five or ten days nothing happens, they get so disillusioned that they give up the path to God. Then they say it doesn't work.
That's sometimes the nature of the person who hasn't lived in the lower worlds very long and hasn't many past lives to his or her credit.
It's difficult in my role as the spiritual leader. There are just a few people who can really recognize the gift of the Inner and Outer Master. Those who can, accept it. Those who can't, reject it.
The people who reject it are usually those who criticize and make fun of the spiritual leader because they don't know better. But the spiritual leader never holds it against them. He was that way too, once. It's just part of the human condition.
Soul's Dance
I had a lucid dream where I was dancing through the ethers with thousands of Souls, all being drawn to a central point. I was full of joy, knowing that no matter what we do in this world, we are always going to be drawn back to this central point.
A very spiritual dream. It's the dance of Soul for God. This joy is in meeting the true Master and having the true love of God.
I have seen people come into an Eckankar seminar and begin crying for no reason. Inwardly, as Soul, they have heard the Voice of God. And God has said, "I love you because you are part of Me, and I am calling you home."
It's a personal experience so strong that it changes that person's life. At that point he is no longer the same. Few of his friends and acquaintances can understand what major turning point occurred to him at that moment. It's just beyond words. But it is life changing.
Sometimes the love is so strong, it's really incredible. It fills you with joy. It cleanses the heart, it purifies it, and it gives the person a readiness to accept more of God's love.
This is the secret of the inner teachings.
From the book, The Call of Soul © 2012 Eckankar – Sri Harold Klemp

I forgot to mention…
this is an interview for The Golden Age Magazine, Sydney, Australia, November 27, 1993